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Prabhupäda: Oh. [break] ...modern,
that the earth comes in front of the moon or the sun and then there is
eclipse. Do they not?
Dr. Patel: They, all the scientists
also say the same thing, sir. When it comes in the straight line the eclipse...
Prabhupäda: No, no, no. I am
saying, repeating their word. But why, then, eclipse takes place irregularly?
Dr. Patel: This is a question of
simple harmonic motions according to the scientists here who explain it.
The simple harmonic motion principle is that several motions are, I mean,
going, gathered at a time. Then all of them come together. Then you see
that thing occurs.
Prabhupäda: No...
Dr. Patel: So that motions are different.
The different timings come.
Prabhupäda: But that means
they do not know actually the motions.
Dr. Patel: And the old astrologers
and scientists of India, they have planned it perfectly, when it comes
out.
Prabhupäda: Our çästra
says that it is Rahu's attack. So attack does not come regularly.
Dr. Patel: That you may call allegorically.
Prabhupäda: One... Suppose
you have got enemy. You are not going to attack regularly, but when there
is some opportunity you go to attack. Harer näma [Cc. Ädi 17.21].
Dr. Patel: Are we not observing
this eclipse rituals, that, during the eclipse we stop aratis and all of
this...
Prabhupäda: Why?
Dr. Patel: And after the eclipse
is over, take bath and then do the arati?
Prabhupäda: Yes, they take
bath.
Dr. Patel: Even the other Vaiñëava
mandirs don't do arati during that period if it comes within that...
Prabhupäda: Hare Kåñëa.
Dr. Patel: Some sort of cosmic disturbances
must be occuring in the cosmos during this period of gåhana(?) or
eclipse. We do not know, the modern science. Some movement must be happening.
Prabhupäda: Yes. Our çästra
says it is attack by Rahu. Rahu...
Dr. Patel: Rahu means...The other
side of the earth's shadow is Rahu, as we say. The modern scientists, the
Rahu means other side of the shadow. When the sun shines on the earth,
the other side of the earth is, I mean, the night and the shadow of the
earth is long, drawn up in the cosmos. And in the view of that shadow,
if moon comes, then it is caught by the shadow.
Prabhupäda: No, in the... Rahu,
Rahu... Rahu comes in front...
Dr. Patel: That is... The shadow
is the Rahu. What else could be? That shadow of earth in the cosmos is
the Rahu, most probably to me, because when the moon... Generally moon
does not come so very often therein in the purview of that shadow. When
it comes, it gets eclipsed.
Prabhupäda: No, no. They give
that the earth comes in front of the sun or the moon, therefore the shadow.
Dr. Patel: Earth comes in front
of the sun. Then it becomes sun eclipse.
Prabhupäda: Yes. So, but why,
if the movement is regular, then the earth come regularly.
Dr. Patel: But there are several
movements also. The movement of the earth, sun, and moon.
Prabhupäda: That means again
escaping.
Dr. Patel: All harmonic motions...
Devotee (5): Many shooting stars...
Dr. Patel: Things should be thought
scientifically.
Prabhupäda: What is the scientifically
if you cannot say how many movements are there?
Dr. Patel: All the movements that
the heavenly stars and other things are going on in a particular way.
Prabhupäda: No, you do not
know what are the movements. You therefore say there are several movements,
but you do not know what are these movements. That is not scientific. To
avoid the explanation, if the scientist says that there are several movements...
But you explain what is that movement? According to our çästra
there is no individual movement. The whole system is moving, making center
the polestar. That we can see at night. They have... Star and planet, they
have no separate movement. They are fixed up. Just like this tree. There
are so many leaves. The tree is moving, so the leaves and twigs, they are
moving, not that the leaf is moving.
Dr. Patel: This is a question of
relativity, sir.
Prabhupäda: Yes. But that we
can see, this...
Dr. Patel: Now, the earth moves
round the sun and the moon moves round the earth...
Prabhupäda: No, no...
Dr. Patel: And the rate of movement
is different on either side. And the axis or ground on which it moves also
differs. So when all of them collide or sort of a thing, then eclipse comes.
That is the modern understanding.
Prabhupäda: And the... When
Brahmänanda was speaking that word yesterday, I refuted your argument?
Brahmänanda: You were asking,
"Why is it Sunday, Monday..." So I explained that the sun is the center
of the universe; therefore the sun comes first.
Dr. Patel: No, various suns are
there. All the stars are the suns of various universes.
Prabhupäda: No, we don't accept
that. No. Sun is one.
Dr. Patel: That is the fundamental
difference of opinion that we don't go ahead of it, sir.
Prabhupäda: No, why shall I
go according to the dictation of the rascals? We are not so rascal.
Dr. Patel: And now we are define
who is a rascal.
Prabhupäda: No, rascal is meant,
who has no authority. They are changing every day. They are changing. We
don't change. These rascals are changing...
Dr. Patel: These fundamentals, sir,
cannot be changed.
Prabhupäda: In nineteenth century
one theory and twentieth century another theory and then another theory,
another theory. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: The truth is not changed
but...
Prabhupäda: Oh, yes, they are
changing. You see here... You have not seen that, our Svarüpa Dämodara's
book? He has given: simply changing, simply changing, these rascals. Changing
means rascal. He does not know. "It is this. It is this." Another man,
"No, no, it is not this. It is this." Therefore all of them rascals.
Dr. Patel: About this Kakubh Kapoor
Cakra(?), our scientist, Mihila(?), has planned it, and according to the
eclipse and sun and the moon eclipse come. That means his science was perfect.
Otherwise it would not come at that particular day, time, and...
Prabhupäda: We... Our... Five
thousand years ago Çukadeva Gosvämé said that "As I
have heard it, I am explaining." That means time immemorial, the thing
is, same thing is coming. There is no change, not that after few days,
"No, no. It was wrong. This is now right." Again somebody comes.
Dr. Patel: They are explaining the
truth in their own way. That is the change of theory. But the truth is
the same.
Prabhupäda: That is the truth
of rascaldom, as soon as you change your position.
Dr. Patel: Theory is rascal, but
the truth is never rascal.
Prabhupäda: No, no, truth you
do not know. Therefore rascaldom.
Dr. Patel: They do not know how
to explain. Truth is there, sir.
Prabhupäda: No, no. Anyway,
he does not know. Therefore he is a rascal, either you say this way or
that way.
Dr. Patel: Truth is there.
Prabhupäda: No, no, truth is
there, but they cannot present the truth rightly. That is rascaldom. Truth
is there; that is certain. But they cannot present the truth in right way.
Dr. Patel: You mean they are groping
in the dark.
Prabhupäda: Yes. That is rascal.
How things are happening—every ten years they are changing their theory.
And that has been explained by, not by a layman like me. The Dr. Svarüpa
Dämodara, he has explained. He has concluded Darwin's theory completely
wrong. You have read that small booklet?
Dr. Patel: Yes.
Prabhupäda: And he has given
reason, quotation, how simply he's speculator.
Dr. Patel: As a matter of, sir,
the whole cosmos is full of, I mean, intelligence. That is God. But then
that intelligence is struck in different way to the, what you call the
mind, which is embedded in the matter. So, I mean, each one explains it
in his own way, as he understands...
Prabhupäda: No, no. You cannot
explain truth in your own way.
Dr. Patel: The whole truth nobody
knows and sees. Even our çästra says.
Prabhupäda: Hare Kåñëa.
Things which one does not know, he should not try to cheat others by placing
some untruth.
Dr. Patel: It is like five blind
men seeing an elephant.
Prabhupäda: Yes. So you should
not give the conclusion that "Elephant is like..."
Dr. Patel: Then we don't accept...
It is very difficult to know the whole truth by any one of us.
Prabhupäda: No. Therefore our
process is upadekñyanti tad jïänaà jïäninas
tattva-darçinaù. One has seen the truth. Not these rascals.
Tattva-darçinaù. Darçinaù means who has actually
seen. There is no change. The advice is tad viddhi praëipätena
paripraçnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. These are the quotes. Upadekñyanti
tad jïänaà jïäninas tattva-darçinaù.
Not that theoretical. Tattva-darçinaù. You have to go there.
Then you will get knowledge. A blind man goes to another blind man. What
is the profit? No profit.